Interviewer:So your visit here to Namibia is after such a long time of high level exchanges between the two countries. I know that my president also spoke more about the two countries relations dating back to pre-independence of Namibia’s non-alignment movement and so on, but during this time around, what brings you to Namibia Minister?
EAM: Actually what happened was when Prime Minister Modi became Prime Minister, he was very keen that we should re-energize our relations with Africa. So in 2015, he actually co-chaired a big India-Africa summit. And in fact, President Geingob went to India on that occasion. Now, our objective was to take this forward in different ways, increase our trade, expand our capacity building and training, and establish more embassies in Africa. And we were doing this, and then we were very hopeful that in 2019, when he got re-elected, we would make a build of this.
In 2019, again, the President and our Prime Minister met in New York for the second meeting. Unfortunately, in 2020, the COVID came, and it cost us, really cost us three years, two and a half, three years.
So when I met the Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister last year, we met first time in Kigali at the commonwealth meeting. I told her, I said, look we are very keen.
Let's find a way of picking up, making up for lost time. And then she was good enough to come to India a month later for the India-Africa business conclave that we did. And I promised her at that time, I said,give me a few months, I'll do my preparations, and I will come here.
So I am here to take the relationship forward. I'm not here just only as a minister. I've brought a business team with me, I've brought officials of other ministries, and most important, we did today the first meeting of the Joint Commission. We had agreed a few years ago to set up a Joint Commission, but the proof of our sincerity and work, we've done the meeting, we have some very good outcomes.
We're trying to create a road map to go forward.
Interviewer: The world is moving away from just sound political relations but to economic diplomacy, something that is quite being emphasized through, I'm sure, also India's foreign policy, Namibia’s foreign policy and the current government here spoke more about new areas of cooperation, which includes agriculture or expansion in agriculture. I know Namibia and India collaborate mostly in health and IT, but now bringing in the oil aspect, and you're saying that you have a business delegation accompanying you. Do you see these areas being strengthened or sought after from your visit?
EAM: Yes, absolutely. I do. I do because you know, our effort is to ask our partner what is important for you, and then we draw up a strategy of cooperation on that issue. So let's look what is important right now. For sure, health is important because we saw during COVID, you know, the kind of challenges which everybody had. So we would like to step up what has been. We have a history of doing work in health, out here, we have some maternity clinics, we did some vaccine supply. We'd like to see how to build on that. The second, which you mentioned, the IT. In fact, today I will be along with the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Education.
It's very important to know, what are the priorities of the partner. If the partner tells us very clearly these five areas matter to us, we will respond accordingly. So let's look at what's important right now.
One is health, so we have done, we have some history here. We've done maternity clinics out here. We were supplying vaccines and medicines during COVID. We'd like to build on that. The second you mentioned was IT. I'm going to be formally inaugurating along with the Deputy PM and the Education Minister, the Center of Excellence and IT, there are a lot of people who want to join it, and we've also made a commitment to do more cybersecurity training exchange, because you need to have, you know, it's one thing to say do cybersecurity. There should be people who kind of trained in it, who will train other people, that’s how it works.
Interviewer: To understand the industry.
EAM: The third area which we would like to really push more strongly into the agenda is energy security. You know, you have countries rich in natural resources, but they themselves are struggling for power, for energy for their needs. And one of the people with me in my delegation is the head of our largest energy company. And again, they have interest here, they have global interest. So we'd like to look at oil and gas and solar and green hydrogen. The fourth area is actually food security. So this morning, actually, I spent time with the Deputy PM discussing how do we grow more food?, because the world needs more food. Now, one area which we are focusing on right now is actually the area of millets. Because I understand that it's also something traditional which is grown and eaten in Namibia, but people don't trade in it in a big way. OK, they grow it and they eat it.
Interviewer: Subsistency.
EAM: Yeah, they eat it, and it's the same in India. So what Prime Minister Modi has done is, he has persuaded the UN to declare an international year of millets, which is 2023. We are trying to work with partner countries to grow more millets. There's a big scope, because it doesn't need much water. OK, it grows on dry land. And small farmers grow it. So it's something which will work here, just like it's working in India. So health security, digital security, energy security, the fourth is food security and water security.
We have done some very good programs like in Mozambique and Tanzania, which is on water harvest and water channeling, water utilization, even urban water supply. So we're willing to look at what are the core needs of development in Namibia. But finally, we also heard today from the President, from the deputy PM that, look, we need to focus on employment. We need to create jobs. We need to create businesses. And what I've told them is Indian businesses are very interested, you need to market Namibia more strongly. I spent this morning with our diamond industry. We have 22 Indian companies who are doing cutting and polishing out here, they're employing a growing number of Namibians. They are, by working with them, people are understanding the business.
Interviewer: So its skills transfer.
EAM: Yeah, yeah, it could be that, you know, there are other areas. I mean, we've had companies before here in mining. I met the Indian community yesterday. There are companies who would like to expand, you know, pharmaceuticals, who would like to do light engineering.
So I think there are a lot of possibilities out here.
Interviewer: Right, and now, Minister, seeing that you just described the relations between the two countries, if I'm to put it that way, as sound, and that is growing from strength to strength with a lot more areas to be explored. Now, seeing that both Namibia and India don't exist in isolation, part of your visit to the African continent was also to attend the BRICS meeting of the Foreign Minister. And the topical issue right now is the arrest warrant issued against another member of BRICS that's now Russian President and India being a country that is known as neutral, non-aligned, same with Namibia. Namibia's stance is that de-escalate and let there be talks or dialogues to unseal. What is India's stance in this case?
EAM: I think India's stance is very similar. Our position, which Prime Minister declared publicly that this is not the era of war, that differences should be settled on the negotiating table. We would like to see a return to dialogue and diplomacy. My Prime Minister has spoken to President Putin. He recently met with President Zelensky of Ukraine in Japan, during the G7 meeting. And I myself have been in regular talks with Foreign Minister Lavrov, and most recently in Cape Town. So we've been very consistent from the beginning that this conflict is not good for anybody. It's not good for the two countries involved. It's not good for the region. It's not good for the world. And most of all, what troubles us is, in a way, the price of this conflict is being paid by countries like you and me. That our energy cost is going up, our food prices are going up, there's inflation, there's fertilizer shortage, there's trade disruption, there's financial stress. So the core interest rates are going up. So this really is a very, very damaging conflict, and the sooner it ends the better.
Interviewer: And what about the sanctions that the West has imposed? You just mentioned that President, your Prime Minister has spoken to both leaders where the conflict is concerned. What about the West or the NATO countries?
EAM: I think the advice that we should return to the negotiating table applies to everybody. It's not an advice we give to one side and tell the other side that they should do something else. Negotiation will not happen unless everybody's sincere. So you can't say one thing in one place, and something else somewhere. We've been very open and very frankly, our history, our political history has always been of being quite independent and quite straightforward. So we have spoken our minds on this and I think today maybe not everybody was that comfortable initially, but I think today people realize that India is a very sober, sensible, responsible country and maybe what they say, we should stop for a moment and listen to them.
Interviewer: Okay, so you're saying India's voice is sought after in the international affairs?
EAM: I think India's voice matters, because we also in many ways consult with and articulate views of the global south. Let me give you an example, there is a G20 presidency every year some countries are members of G20. It's for the first time, we are the president this year. It's for the first time that any G20 president said, OK, there are 20 countries on the table, there are 180 countries not on the table. Can we talk to them and find out what they want? Nobody's done that before. So for the first time this year in January, Prime Minister Modi initiated something called the Voice of the Global South and he encouraged 125 countries. In the case of Namibia, I think your trade minister participated in that exercise. So we had 125 countries share with us saying, look, these are our views and it helps us, because when we then sit on the table in the G20, I can actually tell the other 19 countries saying that, look, folks, you know, yes, I am today the most populous country in the world, but I also have 125 other friends who want their concerns to be heard and maybe you need to listen a little bit more to them.
Interviewer: Now, Minister, bringing you back to your visit to Africa, specifically in Namibia, and also just the relations, seeing that Prime Minister wants the India-Africa relations to be strengthened to another level. You are here in a country of just 2.5 million people, I remember the other day our Prime Minister also met the Indian business delegation, stating that when you do business here in Namibia, do not just look at the market size. I know you come from more than 1.3 billion people, but do not just look at the market size. Look at it as a gateway into Southern Africa. Is this also your strategy?
EAM: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, in fact, I today at the Joint Commission said, one, we look at Namibia for sure, we then look at the region and you know there's a South African Customs Union, and we are very keen to negotiate arrangements with them, so we look at the whole region and then we look at the whole continent, because Africa today is moving towards becoming a single market. So they all coexist, the country, the region, the continent. They are all parallel realities, but the point of entry has to be a country, because at the end of the day, it's a national laws. What happens if you're, whether you're trading or you're investing, you look at the quality of governance, you look at the quality of logistics, you look at the financial stability, you look at the ease of living, these are all factors which an investor keeps in mind. And I think from what I've seen over the last two days, I think Namibia has a very strong case to make and we should be making it.
Interviewer: Just lastly, Minister, moving away from state to state collaboration, official to official business, coming to cultural and just people to people or centered type of investments and collaborations are also what Namibia's revised foreign policy has set out. Are we likely to see Indian, I would say, Bollywood coming here, artists in that particular sector whereby the relations between people to people exchanges are also strengthened?
EAM: You know, I think there's a lot we could do in terms of arts, in terms of culture, in terms of heritage and there are many reasons for it. Today, you know, I went to the Independence Museum. Now, someone like me, I'm old enough to remember that era, and it has like a direct sort of memory for me. For those younger, it's not so much of a direct experience, but it's important they should know that, because it's not just political solidarity and shared struggle.
What happened in those 200-250 years, a lot of our culture, our heritage, our traditions, they were damaged. You know, I travel around the world, I hear sometimes, and someone told me this yesterday, here in Windhoek, there are people who are not keeping up their language, who are not keeping up their food traditions, who are not keeping up their arts and music. So we have to see if you really want to see the revival of Africa, in fact, the revival of the South. It cannot only be a political revival and an economic revival.
So what happened, you know, Namibia has a great emotional significance in the South, because you are the last frontier of the political struggle. So when Namibia became independent, it was like, oh, this was the real, like the final decolonization battle, but the fact is that beyond that, we have today, we are busy with the economic side of that battle. Okay, you have, all of us have to rebuild our economies, but beyond that, there's the cultural side of the battle.
So, and this will happen only when we sort of support each other, strengthen each other. So for me, I mean, you gave me an example, Bollywood. For sure, I mean, it would make great sense to me to have film shootings done in places so that our people also get familiar. I'd like to see more tourism. You know, I must tell you, in the last six months, I have seen more about Namibia in the Indian press than I've seen in the last 60 years. And you know why, because the arrival of the cheetahs. You know, what the cheetahs did was something very big in India. It brought up popular interest in wildlife. The idea of the translocation of big cats.
Today, we are proposing a kind of a Big Cat Alliance. You know, Namibia has three big cats, we have five, but there are, I'm told, 60 or 70 countries who have big cats. So what it has done is, it's made the average person who doesn't know politics, who doesn't do international business. Suddenly, because of the cheetahs, they now know, ah, there's Namibia, they have cheetahs, this is an interesting country. That's how you build this relationship. So we would certainly like to see that prosper and in fact, I would, today, in the last lot of discussions I have with the deputy prime minister, tell her that we need to draw up a kind of a cultural plan of actions so that our systems, you know, I like to see students, teachers, academics, singers, fashion people, textile people. You know, I look at textiles out here. I'm very, you know, we have a great textile tradition in India, so to me, when I see what, you know, people wear out here, their own mode of dressing, the fabrics, it's something which is very, very energizing.
Interviewer: Energizing Foreign Minister. That and what else are you taking home to India from your visit here in Namibia and also South Africa?
EAM: Well, I'm taking home, I think, very deep sentiments of a very long friendship, but I'm also taking home something you said, which is for the younger generation. How do you create a world of possibilities? That, new activities, new common interests, things we can do to make our lives a little bit better and I think that there are truly a lot of possibilities and I'm very confident that, a lot of this will happen.
I must end with a little story for you. You know, yesterday I was driving in from the airport and it was mentioned to me that we actually had a cricket team here. I wasn't aware of it, it was from one of our regions. So I swung by the stadium. I said, okay, let me go and see how they're playing and they were playing very well. Your team was playing very well also, I must say. We had put up a good score and I would have normally felt, okay, you know, with that score, and I would have normally felt okay, you know with that score we should have won. Finally, the Namibian team won in the last round.
Interviewer:Home ground advantage.
EAM: Yea, but take this as an example, in the last few years, see how much and how well Namibia’s cricket is doing and how does that grow. It’s a young persons’ sport. Sports connects like nothing else does. A Namibian national team doing well on the international level is a matter of pride. But is also very deep connect, so to me as I said, it could be cricket today, it could be music tomorrow, it could be literature. There’s a world out there and I think the more we deal with each other, the more we will know each other and more these things we can do.
Interviewer: Great, a world of possibilities. Thank you so much Minister.