Statement by EAM
Dr. Rolf Nikel, Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen,
It's really a great pleasure to be with all of you this evening. I thought I'd make a few remarks to set the context and perhaps spend more time in a conversation which normally makes it more interesting for the audience and certainly more valuable for me.
And let me begin, first of all, by drawing your attention to the logo behind me. I'm here, in many ways, to underline the 25th anniversary of our strategic partnership. I'm also here at a time when there's a new government in Berlin. It was my great privilege to talk to my German counterpart, Minister Wadephul, on his first day in office. I had spoken to him before, but still on the first day in office. And to be here early in the tenure of this government so that we really lose no time in forging a pathway after 25 years to look at the next 25 years and really see where we can take our relationship.
I feel a particular kinship for DGAP because I looked up there and found we were invented in the same year. I'm just as old as this organization. But let me start really with the state of the world because I think relationships between big countries and between regions must necessarily be shaped by the larger context, the global context which they see. And I'm sure none of you would dispute today that this is a period of considerable political uncertainty, of great economic volatility, of technology concerns, concerns which may sometimes lead to descriptions like the chips war, but really much deeper when one looks at the immense possibilities and the considerable challenges of artificial intelligence. What the AI era holds for international relations, but for each one of us personally is something which I think is still not exactly visible.
We obviously today are focused not just in terms of production where technology is concerned, but even more so in its deployment and its influence on societies and international relations. So the big picture today is really very much a conversation about reliable and resilient supply chains, about enhancing trust and transparency, especially in the digital domain, about realizing the centrality of data to our existence and perhaps even today to the balance of power, of anxieties about health, food and energy security, about continuing concerns on climate because the headlines of the day may be more dramatic, but let's not forget that global warming does not stop because there is a change of government, of administration in any capital. Of actually worry about poverty, again a subject which has often dropped off the global discourse and perhaps even a recollection that the damage done by the COVID pandemic is very much there in many parts of the world.
So all in all, quite honestly, the global picture that I have to present to you is very challenging, it's very difficult and for that reason I would argue that the partnership between India and Germany and between India and the European Union of which Germany is the crucial member, the invaluable member, has acquired an importance and a salience much more than it has ever had before. Now, I arrived here yesterday, I've been reasonably busy since then, I had the honour to call on the Chancellor this morning, I had a very, very good discussion with my counterpart, Mr. Johann Wadephul, I met the Energy and Economics Minister, Katherina Reiche, I met the Foreign and Security Affairs Advisor, Dr. Sautter, a number of members of Parliament who have been traditionally very, very supportive of the development of our ties and I'm meeting all of you.
So, the reason I stress this is at this time, it's important we start thinking, yes, 25 years of strategic partnership, many things have gone well, maybe we have not fully realised the potential of our ties, possibly in the new context there is much more that we can do and that's really the frame of mind with which I have come to Berlin and engaged in the conversations today. So what is it that we can do to upgrade our relations? And I would flag for your attention a set of issues and I hope we can take it forward in the conversation. Perhaps a good start would be defence and security. We've had sort of an off and on relationship here. There have been times, decades ago, when there were actually active defence ties between us, then for whatever reason, there is a certain conservatism about taking it forward.
But I have seen that in the last few years, once again, there is a realization in both countries that there is something that we have to offer to each other and the defence and security of both countries would be very much stronger through our cooperation. And we see this reflected, we see this reflected in exercises, in the visits of German ships to the Indo-Pacific and to Indian ports. We see it reflected in enhanced export licensing practices, in discussions whether there can be further technology and equipment collaboration between our countries. And as someone pointed out to me this morning, if you actually look at Germany's defence exports to India, last year saw a very visible pickup.
The second area is actually talent and mobility. Talent and mobility because across the world today, there is a mismatch between demand and demographics. So where there is a need for people, those people of that particular skill are not necessarily available. Now, it could be the skill to innovate and create and invent, it could also be the skill to service and ensure that the particular sector of society is well looked after. And here, I think India has something very special to offer. The demographic curve at this moment is exactly in the place where we have the ability to fashion a global workforce and try to make it available as usefully as it can to the global workplace. And again, in the last few years, we've made a good beginning. We had a mobility agreement two years ago. The number of talented, high-skilled Indians who come to Germany has increased significantly.
And I can say, I heard from the government, I heard from members of other parties, I heard from business enterprises, from German delegations visiting India, that they see this today as a very important requirement for the continued growth of the German economy. And our effort certainly would be to prepare this workforce and deploy it in as optimal and mutually efficient a way as we can.
A third area is technology and digital AI. And there are different aspects to it. As I said, one which often has got a lot of attention is the semiconductor side. And just as Germany today is building up its semiconductor capacity, so is India. And when different countries, but who are in terms of the world view and the comfort levels and, you know, the way they intuitively deal with each other are comfortable, I would say parallel developments can reinforce each other.
And we have seen a very conscious effort made really to harness the Indian talent into the semiconductor and microelectronics industry. And on our part, again, you know, we are, after a very long gap, we are building a fab in India. There are a number of big projects in the ATMP spectrum which are coming up. And how do we make really the world more secure in terms of trusted availability of chips is, I think, a shared goal for our two countries.
When it comes to AI, I draw your attention to the – I mean, many of you would be familiar with the big debates. I mean, at a very conceptual level, I would say, you have models which are very state-driven at one extreme and very radically enterprise-driven at another. So you have complete control on one side and ostensible non-control on the other, but a lot of influence there. And there are a lot of viewpoints in between which put a certain value to privacy, to the rights of citizens, to the security of our personal data. And I think it's a conversation which is very important. And certainly, I would argue that India and the European Union, Germany, would have positions not obviously identical, but somewhere in between the two extreme positions.
I then refer to sustainability because green growth has been, again, a very notable feature of our cooperation. In the last decade, Germany has been an important partner as India embraced renewables and solar energy. The collaboration that we did has really helped today to create a very significant renewable energy component in the Indian economy.
But now we have to look at the next phase. And for us, again, we look at the era of green hydrogen and green ammonia and see what it is that we can do together collaboratively to make that potential more realizable.
I have spoken about talent. I have also spoken about the fact that we would like to grow our business. Of course, right now, relatively speaking, judging – using our own history as a benchmark, our trade figures look good. But in comparison with many other important relationships, I think there's a long way we have to go. Our bilateral trade has just crossed 50 billion dollars, but we surely feel that two countries which are the third and fourth largest economies of the world can do better than that. And here – and I will touch on that later – we do believe that concluding an FTA with the European Union could make a very big difference.
So when we look ahead, as I said, the next 25 years, what are the goals we set for ourselves? What are the targets we should be – what are the ambitions we should be having? I think a lot of it has to do with the progress and growth of India, because in that progress and growth, there will be new opportunities that will arise. And let me give you a few examples. You have a very strong railway sector. Now, we are today heavily investing in the expansion and modernization of railways, investing to the extent that every year we've been – the last few years, we've been laying about 4,000 kilometers of new track every year. That's about roughly 12 kilometers of railway track every day.
Similarly, if one looks at the road infrastructure and, again, the consequences of that, you have in India on an average day between about 25 to 30 kilometers of highway which are being built. If you look at airports, we on an average do between six to seven new airports a year which really means that much bigger a demand for air transportation and aircraft, and I don't need to remind you that Airbus is a shared enterprise in this geography. Similarly, if one looks at Metro, every year there's one or two new – one or two cities which have had a new metro network which has been completed. So now I'm using these illustrations to underline the rapidity today of change in India, because I know that is historically not our image.
And it's not just happening in the hard infrastructure. It's also happening in the soft. In the last decade, we have created approximately 7,000 new colleges, which would be about, on average, two new colleges a day. So that will tell you really what is underway in India, and we think that this offers both new capacities as well as new opportunities for business. Now, moving beyond that, of course, as two big and influential countries, we understandably are worried about the world. We look at it from the viewpoint of our interests, but we also obviously take into account our values, our expectations of the world, which any country would like to see mirrored on how it is at home. That's a very natural trait.
And here I would argue that it's important that we find, develop, and deepen the common ground between us. We live in different continents. We have different levels of development. Our population size is not the same. But it's important, you know, because often how we think about the world depends on, you know, where we are and where we want to go and what is possible for us, what are the understandings and arrangements and accommodations we make. Because my business is a business of realists, not of cynics, but of realists. And for us today, the more we engage with each other, the more we work with each other, I would argue that, two countries located in different continents at different levels of development can find a very large common ground for us together to influence the world.
And influence the world because, as I said at the beginning, we need more stability in the global order. We need more predictability and more confidence in the economic order. We really need a stronger mutuality in the cultural order. And that is only possible when you make that effort to find common ground.
Now again, I reiterate the issue that, yes, challenges come often. Debates nowadays become very dramatic, so they vary from one posting to another. But the fact is many perennial issues also continue. So it's important for us to understand terrorism is a very big challenge and a continuing challenge for countries across the world. We have just come out of an experience in that regard on combating terrorism. I'd certainly be happy to talk about it in the question session. Climate action. Again, very, very crucial. Poverty reduction. Connectivity. We want connectivity which is not controlled by a single power, which is in many ways a shared, collaborative, global enterprise.
Conflicts. I mean, we have right now two big conflicts going on in the world simultaneously, each one of which has actually had a profound ripple impact well beyond its region. Reform of the United Nations. Here again, India and Germany are part of a group called G4, which has been trying to press for a much more contemporary United Nations. So there is a global agenda. There should be an effort for deeper conversations. We need to build a stronger bilateral collaboration. And much of that, in my view, can be achieved or can be furthered by an expeditious conclusion of an India- European Free Trade Agreement. A free trade agreement in today's context, particularly because for the European Union, in many ways it has been a very key pillar of its foreign policy engagements.
I would certainly argue that in today's context, to conclude an FTA agreement has a significance beyond trade, beyond investment, beyond economics. I think it would send a message today that, India and the European Union, India and Germany are prepared to come together to, as I say, build a deeper, closer, stronger relationship so that the next time we put some round number on a chart like that, I think we will have concrete achievements and realized ambitions for us to talk about. So once again, thank you very much. Thank you for your attention and I look forward to the session.
Panel Discussion
Q: Your Excellency, thank you very much for your strong input on the importance and future of the strategic partnership between India and Germany, and also about the relationship between India and the European Union. You mentioned, I think, a lot of relevant topics—like AI and data, resilient supply chains, energy security, climate, and defence—that are relevant for India but relevant for Germany as well. So there are a lot of topics where we can see a lot of potential for cooperation.
My colleague, Dr. Kira Vinke, and I would like to come back to a couple of points and maybe dive deeper into some of the topics that you have already mentioned. As Ambassador Nikel mentioned , we will first have a discussion among ourselves and then later open up the floor to the audience. I would now like to hand over to my colleague.
Thank you, Minister Jaishankar. I will jump right into the questions, if you allow me. Germany’s past government published a "Focus on India” strategy paper, and you have mentioned our strategic partnership. We now have a new government. What are your expectations for our bilateral relations?
EAM: You know, my expectations are high for two reasons. One, I think we are starting on a very sound base. There were two reports, the Focus on India, and also one on talent and skills. And I recognize, certainly where India is concerned, that there is a great deal of continuity between the policies of the earlier government and this one. But whenever there is a government change, there is always a certain enthusiasm and a certain vigour with which any new government comes and pursues a policy.
As I said, for me, the new government came in—and on the first day of the new government, I had a conversation with Minister Wadephul. I’m here really within the first two weeks of the government? That should tell you really both our interest and that of the government. There is a very conscious effort today to first to recognize that we are—well, I don’t want to say we are underperforming—but we could surely do better than we are doing. And there are definitely areas which, if we put our minds to it and make that effort, there will be many many more things we can do.
And as I said, one part of it is what happens between us bilaterally, but also the fact that we are both countries whose influence is not small. When we start talking with each other, when we try to develop common ground, and then discuss what we should be doing, that has an impact on the world as well. So I have high ambitions. That is the reason I’m here. And I can tell you, as I leave tomorrow, the expectations with which I came are even higher. Everything I have heard today, everybody I met today has only given me that sense that this is something we both share and want to take forward.
Q: Thank you very much. I’m very glad to hear about the high expectations. I think there’s a similar feeling here in Germany about the importance of a closer relationship with India.
Let me now return to the topic of trade and the Free Trade Agreement (FTA) that you already mentioned. India and the EU have been negotiating a free trade agreement for several years—or maybe even decades.
EAM: With big gaps.
Q: With big gaps in between, yes. When European Commission President Ursula Von Der Leyen came to New Delhi in February, she decided together with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi to finish the agreement by the end of this year in 2025. So how would you say has the importance of this FTA has evolved in the current geo-economic environment, with the current uncertainties that we see in trade? And what is needed to achieve an ambitious outcome in these negotiations?
EAM: You know, I think our negotiations started about 22 or 23 years ago. But I was very relieved once I was somewhere else in the world and heard that their negotiations were even longer than that—so it made me feel a little better.
But why I mention it is that if you look at the two decades, that of this period both of us have changed considerably. Our capacities have changed. The world has changed. What we would define as our key economic interests, or other interests linked to the FTA, has also changed. Even as we keep talking, the objectives change as the negotiations progress. And as I said, there were times when we did not frankly negotiate for some years – for whatever reasons. So I regard, just as I am, you know, frankly, so encouraged by my visit here to Berlin, I was also equally encouraged by the visit of the College of Commissioners, EU Commissioners to India.
If 21 commissioners came together, you know, typically, you know, and I must confess, perhaps two or three ministers of the Indian government normally deal with Brussels. The foreign minister, maybe the trade minister, the finance minister. But when 21 commissioners come and meet their 21 or more counterparts, and that too, again, very early in the term, what it does is it immediately sets up a kind of a grid between the Indian system and the EU system. So different parts, you know, all sorts of issues, digital issues, labour issues, sustainability issues, women's development issues, all these start moving because now people are talking to each other instead of funneling everything through one or two channels.
So we very highly value, you know, President Von der Leyen's decision to actually bring this whole delegation and spend those two days in India so that everybody sits down and gets to know their counterpart and gets to take this forward. In terms of the actual negotiations, it is, my understanding is that it is progressing. I talk regularly to our trade minister. In fact, I spoke to him yesterday, and I think the next few days it's very likely that he would be again in Brussels. And, you know, it's not my right really to speak about the details of the negotiations because it is not my direct jurisdiction. But I can say this as someone in my career who's involved in complex, you know, stretched out negotiations.
First, if there is a political will, if there's a strong political direction to get the job done, I think the negotiators are that much more willing to find solutions than they would. So, they will find a solution rather than do the round and say, okay, when's the next round? Secondly, we have to be understanding of each other. As I said, I mean, think about the EU, I think on average perhaps has an income per capita which is about 20 times, maybe 17, 18 times that of India. the levels of development, the size of enterprises, they're very different. Now, any negotiation has to take into account realistically the ability and the constraints and the anxieties and the expectations of the other party.
There are things we can do, there are things we can't. And that is often a challenge because, you know, when we do multiple agreements, we tend to transpose one onto the other. If you look at, let us say, agriculture or you look at dairy, we are a country of very small land holdings, people when they do animal husbandry have very small number of cattle. So they understandably have issues when confronted with another economy where the scales are so much bigger and therefore the costs and the efficiencies are very different. So I felt earlier on, because I have myself been now for 11 years been monitoring and sometimes involving myself in these negotiations, I feel there is a much more sympathetic understanding on the EU side about what's possible, what is fair, what is realistic.
And I hope if that translates into something also creative in a landing point, I feel it's something that will allow us to move forward.
Q: Thank you. I want to touch on climate and development. India has a net-zero emissions goal for 2070 and has also set the goal to achieve developed country status by 2047, a 100 years after its independence. How can these goals be jointly achieved? And how could the Indo-German partnership support green growth?
EAM: Well, I think in many ways, these are multiple quests. They are autonomous in a way, but they are interlinked obviously in a way. And again, these are not linear projections which are made, I remember Paris and Glasgow and I could not have predicted the world today on either occasion.
You know, I mean, there's been such an unexpected and dramatic turn to the world economically, politically, in terms of technology, etc. So, yes, those are commitments and aspirations and goals. But again, these are realized if you go building block by building block. I mean, that's how real things actually happen. They don't happen in a sweeping manner.
So let us say, I'm just giving you this as a very handy example. We have one of the largest railways in the world, and as I said, we are expanding it very rapidly. But we have set a net zero target for the railways of 2030. So the more we are able to, let us say, grow greener transportation, so railways and waterways. In fact, it was one of the subjects which we discussed today in our official meetings.
You know, what is it that Germany can do? Because these are both areas where you have very deep strengths. Our waterways are really very, it's a very small part of our, minuscule part of our transportation system. Because there is a lot of attention in terms of power generation. Often, that's the way, when you start looking at goals and then you say, so how much of it is fossil fuel based? Thats one element of it. But there are so many others. The energy efficiency side, the urban habitation, even the rural practices, the lifestyle in many ways.
So I think in each of these, there are contributions which our partners can make. Because for us when we look at Europe, yes, we know our histories are different and there is a lot which is contrasting.
But there are learnings from Europe. There are differences that Europe can make. We have, again, I use solar and wind as examples. That a decade before, people really did not expect this kind of progress and adoption of and deployment of renewable technology as we could. India is a partner, yes, but India is also a great place to deploy. India is a place where we, you kind of work and adapt and improve as well because it's on such a large scale. So I do think both in terms of what we call developed India as well as a net zero India there are big contributions which can be made. We have serious ambitions today to ramp up our manufacturing.
If you look at the manufacturing percentage of our economy, in my view, it is unnaturally low. And it is because in the past we did not make the necessary investments or create the manufacturing ecosystem.
You know, when I spoke today about the advances in infrastructure, such an infrastructure, the kind which I'm talking about, is necessary for manufacturing. Because without that, the cost efficiencies won't happen. Nobody's going to set up factories if your ports are congested and your roads are narrow. So here again, we see, a resilient supply chain would at the end of the day contribute to both a greener, cleaner growth pattern as well as actually a developed India. So it's a kind of a total package.
And so I would argue really for overall closer relations rather than sectorally close relations. Our vision of a relationship is not just increase the trade numbers. You know, to me, the metric would be, let us say, more academic exchanges, more trade exchanges, certainly more, sort of interpenetration of our practices, greater sort of flow of our innovation. So it has to be really a larger, deeper relationship. And I think politically, culturally, we are prepared for it today with Europe.
Q: Thank you. You mentioned that India and I think Germany also is interested in a greater and larger relationship. And this is where my question comes into place. I would like to turn the focus on the Indo- Pacific. So in what ways can India and Germany enhance their cooperation in the Indo- Pacific region, not only in trade, but also with regard to the security challenges that we face in the Indo- Pacific?
EAM: The Indo- Pacific has, of course, its own set of issues. Security is one of them. But I would actually point to a different concept, which is how do we give countries in the Indo- Pacific more choices, that if countries in the Indo- Pacific have a single choice, they're railroaded along a certain path and they develop the dependencies. And frankly, they're put in a very unenviable position. So one part of what we are trying to do really in the Indo- Pacific is to give different countries different options in various domains.
Let us say, I'm using again an example, telecom, or digital infrastructure, or maybe space- based applications, or health choices - during COVID, for example, what we tried to do in the Indo- Pacific was really to see if countries of that region could get expeditious access to vaccines. And, you know, some of it we did in a national capacity. Some of it we did as a quad enterprise. But a lot of it was done by GAVI and GAVI was a very European-driven effort. So you know, if you take the development or, you know, I would say the socioeconomic side, so giving choices is one. The second part of it is really stepping up in terms of global goods, because historically, much of the world, and certainly the Indo- Pacific, I think have, almost reflexively turned to the United States when something happens.
And we have to recognize that there is an evolution, and perhaps now more than an evolution in how the United States is engaging with the world. What is its stance? What is its posture? What is its willingness to commit resources and undertake responsibilities? In a different context, you use the word burden- sharing in this part of the world. But if one looks, for example at if there is a disaster, if there's a typhoon. So who comes today to help? I remember in 2004, when there was that big tsunami. We had actually the bulk of the response came from the U.S, from India, to some extent from Japan, some from Europe, perhaps a little bit from Australia.
Today if you look at the last, say, five years in the Indo- Pacific space, I will just give you a recent example. There was a huge earthquake with an enormous loss of life in Myanmar. Now it's very interesting. Who went in? Where were the teams which, you know, which arrived there on the first day? Who did the search and rescue? Who set up shelters? Who created the mobile hospitals? That was actually basically India and China. So I put it to you that there is also today, in a way, a deficit in global goods. So one part of it is giving the choices. But the other part is how do we collectively, collaboratively address many of these needs? And we do feel there is an intent, certainly, on the part of Europe to do it.
Intent by itself won't work if you don't have partners who make it possible. And, you know, it's an analogy not with a European country, but I think the concept you will understand. If we had to do something in the Pacific Islands today, there was a big, I think, mudslide. I mean, a lot of people lost their lives in Papua New Guinea. What we did was we had an arrangement with Australia, which partly came out of the QUAD where our relief and, our supplies went into Australia. And then they took it on from there to Papua New Guinea. So I would argue that, we need between Europe and India and certainly Germany and India, because you are so crucial here, to create new modes of collaboration to deal with global crises and, these kinds of happenings. Because the old 911 number is not going to work.
Q: Thank you for these thoughts. You have mentioned in your opening remarks the issue of terrorism, and we have all witnessed the horrific attacks in Pahalgam. I would like to ask you, what are the international implications of the conflict in Kashmir with regards to China, Russia, the US?
EAM: Look, first of all, this was not a conflict in Kashmir, this was a terrorist attack. And a terrorist attack which is part of a pattern which has not only targeted the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir, but other parts of India as well. So it's very important to clarify, because when you project it as a conflict, you're really putting the perpetrator and the victim, without meaning to, I understand, at the same level.
This was a horrific, particularly brutal terrorist attack because, it was meant to create a fear psychosis and, destroy the tourism economy of Kashmir, which is the main stay. And it also meant, in a way, to sow religious discord, the manner in which it was done. So what we were responding to was terrorism. And when we respond to such an attack, I think there was a lot of international understanding. So it was very, you know, to me it was telling that the UN Security Council, three days after the attack, actually issued a statement saying that the people who did it should be brought to justice, they should be held accountable. And that is exactly what we did on the 7th of May. So we targeted terrorist headquarters and terrorist centers.
And our campaign is against terrorists. Now, the terrorists in this case happened to be located in the country next door, because that country next door has for many, many years used terrorism as a kind of a tool in its attempts to pressurize us, or call it what you will. So in a way I'm laboring the point. But I'm doing it because, when it comes to terrorism, I think today, there's virtually no country which would say, I approve of what is done. Or no country which would say, I don't condemn what was done. And if I were to say, I have the right to defend myself, my people, I have the right to secure my country, I think most, much of the world would agree with me.
And I'm happy to say that Germany does. We are very encouraged both by the very early condemnation of the terrorist attack, as well as the very clear message which we got on the 7th of May, and again today from Minister Wadephul, that Germany recognizes India's right to defend itself against terrorism.
Q: Thank you so much for answering a broad range of questions. And if time allows, I would probably have two questions, three questions from the audience really briefly, and then hand back to you also for final remarks. And one question over here, one question over there, and the last question over there. Please really briefly introduce yourself and pose a question.
Q: Good evening. Thank you, Mr. Jaishankar, and especially thank you for pointing out technology and mobility as key pillars of the relationship. I'm Jonas Kepsch, and I'm with Bertelsmann India Investment, a venture capital especially dedicated to investments into Indian technology companies. And the one thing standing in the way the most for us to unleash our full potential with our investments in India is actually the issue of bureaucracy on mobility. We have issues getting work visas or internship visas in time, and this is hindering our work in India. So our question is, how can we remove this burden of bureaucracy to unleash the full potential in economic relations between Germany and India?
EAM: So if I understood you right, the problem is getting work visas for people to work in India. Exactly, yeah. Look, obviously in my job, I often get people who have complaints or various levels of dissatisfaction. I understand it, that's what I'm supposed to address. But it would help me if people are specific. Because if you tell me the bureaucracy needs to be better, no question, I would agree with you too. But if you want to solve the problem, honestly, if you could give us some specifics. I have the ambassador sitting here, I'd be very, very happy to address that because at the end of the day, it's when you solve, you know, specific problems that policy also changes along with it. And so I invite you to give me the specifics. I encourage the Ambassador to make sure that our system, in that he keeps reminding me till we solve your problem. But when I do solve your problem, I also would be very happy if you would talk about it to other people.
Q: Thank you so much. So I have two more questions that I would like to collect. The gentleman over there, maybe a microphone.
Q: So I'm Dr. Vivek Arunachalam, Professor for Business Innovations. One of the things that you emphasized was actually creating a kind of, improving the relationship between India and Germany is something that you emphasized. Do you have an idea of pressing upon, of creating something like an innovation-based think tank, especially bridging between India and Germany, especially because India is now climbing above the value chain, because it's no longer into the low- end innovation. It needs to go to the high- end innovation. And especially Germany is also very strong, especially based on their experience of industries. So do you believe in creating a kind of innovation- based think tank, which can really support the exchange of academic councils, industry- specific ideas? So how do you see about this?
EAM: You know, you're not the first person, in a way, who's brought that up. Somebody else some time ago mentioned something similar. I would say, because there are two ways of changing things. One is to create a model and then hope others will copy the model, use it, and then scale it up. That's one way of changing things. Another is to create an enabling platform, where institutions or people come together, link, and then do it themselves.
My experience is more, biases me towards the second. I would, certainly say there are steps we need to take. Today, for example, I had a very special requirement, a very strong urging to my counterpart minister. I said, look, please do everything you can to increase German language teaching in India. And the reason is, there's a huge appetite for learning foreign languages. And if you, and learning foreign languages, today, if you go to engineering colleges, if you go to medical schools, if you go, it's not necessarily a professional language student. People who have a domain speciality are curious about the world, because today's young person is so much more connected to the world because of their connectivity, the smartphone culture. So, for me, language teaching is probably one way of connecting.
But what we need is in different professions or different domains of activities, similar people to find a connection. Prime Minister Modi, for example, has very actively promoted hackathons between countries, because he feels that's a way for young people with a particular bend of mind to actually get to know each other and connect up with each other. With Germany, again, one very positive development we have seen in the last few years is much stronger linkages of academic institutions. Now, here again, we've changed our education policy. We, today, welcome foreign universities and institutions to come to India. And we are very flexible about how this can be done. So, if they want to come and set up a university or an institute, they're welcome.If they want to work collaboratively with an existing one, if they want to do a double degree, if they want to even promote internships, this is one way of collaboration.
But I will reflect on your suggestion, because in our mind, there's also, I mean, we've been sort of debating. We need more forums, not of a very generalized nature, because if it is too general, people don't take it entirely seriously. There's got to be a degree of specificity about it. Let me talk about it with some of our colleagues who are really more active in that line of work. And perhaps the next time we meet, or you may read about it, maybe I may have something better to report in.
Q: Thank you. If time allows, I had one brief last third question. Gentleman over there. And then I would get back to you for final remarks.
Q Evening sir, I have a question regarding the diplomacy, because you are the most admired diplomat in the world. So, what should the next generation of diplomacy look like? Or how are your views on the next level of, next generation of diplomacy? Because till here, we have also evolved to this point, and for sure, we will also evolve from here in the next 25, 30 years. So, how will the nature of diplomacy evolve?
EAM: You know, the problem when you ask someone what would be the next generation, that's a nice way of telling them that they are sort of getting extinct. So, you are saying, your time is over. What would evolution look like?
So, I take that in the right spirit. But, again, I'm really reflecting even, let us say, the last decade or two. think in many ways, the traditional ways of diplomacy, and that's not just, how you dress and how you speak. First of all, the complexity of the world has increased. The speed at which you are to react is that much faster. So, you are really doing a more difficult sum at a, you know, in a shorter time. And the culture of it, you know, do look today how much diplomacy is conducted through social media. Now, five years ago, people were even hesitant to go on to social media, because it was viewed as too unstable an environment, you know, and you post something quickly and maybe you made a mistake and there are all the worries which accompany that.
And yet, in the last five years, there's been, I mean, almost every foreign ministry in the world today actually primarily communicates on social media. So, and again, as I said, it's also more complex. You know, you can't, you have to specialize at one level, but also connect that speciality, the role of technology, for example, its been growing so fast. It's very difficult for the diplomatic world, not just as a user of technology, but really the policies which, and the implications, for global balances of that. So, to me, it's like you've got to be faster, smarter, more informed, more of a specialist, yet, paradoxically, more of an integrator at the same time. So, in some ways, it's hard, it's gonna be hard, it is a harder profession. It is a harder profession because the standards are higher and the margin of error is less. So, it's tough. So, I hope I have your sympathy.
Conclusion (Moderator): Minister Jaishankar, we are very grateful for your time. It was a very intriguing conversation. And therefore, although you gave us so much time, time was too short. And we take a lot away from this. And I would also like to thank the Indian Embassy who have helped prepare us, prepare with us this important event. Thank you again for gracing us with your attendance here at DGAP. And we would love to welcome you back again soon. Thank you very much.